Beetle 1600i Starting Problem - Please help!

[gnd77]

Hi,

I am new to the forum so please let me introduce myself. I am Gareth and my girlfriend Amy has owned a 1997 Mexican Beetle 1600i for the last 9 months, which we use on a daily basis.

I'm sorry to be posting in English but I can speak no German at all and am finding that Babelfish is not good with technical automotive terms

Well, for the majority of our ownership the car has been largely trouble free, racking up somewhere in the region of 12,000km (total now 101,000km) in the 9 months including a holiday touring Scotland Until now I have only needed to undertake routine servicing. Since the bad weather arrived at the beginning of December, however, our luck has changed!

The car has become intermittently very difficult to start from cold. The procedure when the problem occurs goes are as follows:-

1) Disable imobiliser
2) Switch ignition on and listen to fuel pump pressure up
3) Crank engine, which fires almost instantly and runs well on all 4 cylinders for a matter of seconds before cutting out, regardless of any attempts with throttle pedal to keep it running
4) Crank engine at varying throttle positions for several minutes with pasuses where deemed appropriate for things to take a breather (engine cranks very fast - to the point I am concerned about a lack of compression - and battery shows no signs of flattening at any point)
5) Engine eventually coughs into life a cylinder at a time, needing the assistance of the starter motor to keep it running/firing for some time
6) Once finally started and given a good rev to clear things, the car runs, idles, pulls etc. completely as normal and is capable of long journeys. Re-starting once warm is no problem.

So far I have replaced relay number 30 with the newer grey type from my VW dealer. I took the old one apart and it was definitely faulty but the new one has made no difference to the problem. I have replaced the rotor arm, distributor cap and plugs, again no change. The leads are admittedly past their best and new ones are on order but I don't believe these are the problem given that the engine initially fires without problem and runs perfectly once finally started. I have done a quick visual inspection of the vacuum pipes and cannot see an obvious problem. I have checked the resistances of the two temperature sensors when cold and they are equal and to specification.

The only other thing to note is that the alternator light glows slightly when running with most of the electrics switched on. This has been the case for a while and I need to get the alternator looked at. I don't think we have a serious charging problem though as the battery always seems fully charged and able to take the punishment of our starting ritual!

This is becoming very frustrating problem for us and we are losing confidence in the car as I run out of ideas... Please can anyone help?

Many thanks,

Gareth

[phade]

Hi Gareth,

That sounds like the faulty relay 30 has scrambled the values within the ECU its self. The only cure for that is to set the ignition timing correctly (under VAG Command 04 - Basic Setting) and leave the car in Basic Settings mode for 3 minutes after that. You will need a VAG 1551/1552, VAS 5051/5052/5053 or a laptop running the VagCom software to set the ignition timing. Further details are on the 1600i website http://www.1600i.de/

If you haven't got a laptop with the VagCom software nor a 1600i to OBD II adaptor, then I can order some bits up to make some more of those adaptors.

Cheers,

Phil

[gnd77]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I'm interested in your response, do you think its possible that the ignition timing could be that far out given that the distributor itself (i.e. base setting) hasn't moved? I'm definitely up for giving your suggestion a go though

Whilst I'm no idiot with engine management systems (I built, installed and set up a Megasquirt system on one of my other cars) I am at a bit of a loss with the Beetles system, basically due to the lack of available information, especially in English.

I have no diagnostic equipment for this car at all, which only adds to my frustration and confusion, and would like to rectify this!! It would be reassuring to read a fault code and replace the offending component...

In simple terms what do I need? I have a laptop but no VAG software. A friend at work has a handheld VAG diagnostics device that I could borrow if necessary but I'd prefer to use the laptop. I understand that some adapter leads need to be made or purchased but know not much more than that. If you could help me out it'd be much appreciated, please let me know the costs.

Once more, many thanks.

Gareth

p.s. I have a serial to USB adapter that commmunicates reliably with my Megasquirt system if that is of any use.

[phade]

To diagnose your 1600i beetle effectively, you will need the following:-

- A fuel pressure test set and a digijet adaptor (a drilled out plastic Halfords tyre valve connector with it's plastic hose will do. Drill out the tyre adaptor to 9.5 mm or 3/8")

- An adjustable advance timing light (to set the ignition timing to 6˚ BTDC). The correct way to set the ignition timing is on here http://www.1600i.de/1600i-elektronik/ignition-easy/ignition-easy.html

- A VAG 1551,1552, VAS 5051,5052 or 5053 fault code reader. Alternatively you could use a laptop running the VagCom software (email me if you need a copy of it).

- An OBD II to 1600i adaptor. I'm currently out of stock of them, but if you need one then I will order up the bits to make some more of them.

- A VagCom lead. I know that the 9 pin D-type (serial aka RS232) lead works with the 1600i Beetle. I don't know wether the USB one will work with it or not.

- A USB to serial port adaptor if you plan to use the VagCom RS232 lead.

- A digital multimeter to measure voltage and resistance.

I have written quite a lot of the english documentation (Manfred has written a fair bit in english as well), all of which is on the 1600i website http://www.1600i.de/

[gnd77]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for getting back to me again.

I would definitely like to buy from you a 1600i to OBD2 adapter. Also possibly a copy of the VAGCOM software. How much are these items individually and how soon do you think you could prepare them?

I think that I am able to sort everything else, I have a suitable timing light and multimeter and can rig up a fuel pressure gauge. I will obtain an OBD2 to serial or USB lead.

I will now go and study the on-line documentation that you have referred me to.

My e-mail address is garethdav@aol.com

Many thanks,

Gareth

[phade]

Hi Gareth,

The OBD II to 1600i adaptor will cost £30 including postage and I will order the bits for them tomorrow. One thing I don't know is how fast I will be able to get those bits.

I have also just sent you an email.

Cheers,

Phil