Finally... videos of my engine failing (not detected yet)

[Pegasín]

Thanks a lot to all forum for your help!!!!

Now, after a few messages about the problems with my car, here is 3 recent videos of it:

Today, started and ran only for five minutes! Later, it didn't start again. Trying a few minutes later, it started and ran less than one minute!!!!
Since this, it never started again

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ddzywt9uxvo

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=wjI9DVnKem0

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=pJeDry2JyMU





VAG-COM didn't detect nothing. I can't measured engine ratios becouse engine stopped at that time. But when this window was loading, this message appeared several times...

[phade]

This sounds like a sender or some form of electronics problem. I had a similar fault with my car last November (it stumped me for nearly 2 months).

I think either of the following could be causing the fault that you've got with your car:-

- Hall sender (intermittantly or pernamently open circuit) inside the distributor. The only cure for this is to replace the distributor.

- Oil temperature or air temperature sender intermittant. This would not cause the engine not to fire at all.

The most likely cause of your engine not running at all is the hall sender inside the distributor.

To check this you will need to measure the voltage from the ECU to the distributor across pins 1 and 3 on the distributor lead's plug. It should be at least 10 Volts. If the voltage from the ECU is ok then the hall sender is faulty.

You can get a new distributor from any of the following:-

- Manfred
- VW Classic Parts Center ( http://www.vw-classic.net/bestand/index2.html ). This website is in german only
- Antonio Trejo (email: partsvw@hotmail.com). Beware of import and sales tax (I don't know what those rates are in Spain).

If you could send me your email address I could email you the fuel injection booklet, which will tell you the steps you will need to do.

I have also documented some of the fuel injection booklet (in my own words and using my own and Manfred's methods) on the 1600i website.

Another thing you can do with VAG-COM is to leave the ignition on (but do not start the engine) and access the ECU to read the fault memory (and make a note of the faults found) and erase them. This should also give you a rough clue of what has actually happened (the new ignition transformer may have cured those errors anyway).

Let me know how you get on.

Cheers,

Phil

[Pegasín]

Thanks for your support!

Today I was checking again the engine.

With the engine cold I measured the oil temperature and air temperature senders with a multimeter...

First:

-the senders resistances measures are identical; 2.56 ohms for air and 2.51 ohms for oil/engine (in 20K scale)

-Hall sender : 10.94 V (in the plug, not in the distributor: It's ok?)


But I saw by chance that the oil sender plug was "toasted" a bit and with a little deformation (almost invaluable).

So I measured the plugs:

-Air sender plug: 8.5 ohms
-Oil sender: 1.58 ohms
(in 20K scale)

What do you think?

Second:

-VAG-COM check didn't detect nothing again
-I can't conect the VAG-COM to "measuring blocks" menu. In fact appears the message "no response from controller".

The first time I used VAG-COM and other times It works perfectly. I don´t know what happend now



Today the engine didn't failure!!!!!!!

Thanks!!!

[phade]

Hiya Pegasin,

It looks like that the ECU is ok, so the distributor's hall sender may be suspect. The only real way to test this is to connect the plug back onto the hall sender, start up the engine and wiggle (move) the plug around with a pair of pliers. If the engine then runs badly or cuts out all together then the hall sender is definately faulty.

I think (if I remember rightly) that the hall sender's impulse rotor (the metal plate below the rotor arm) is removable by taking off the circlip. The hall sender should then be accessible.

Unfortunately in my case the impulse rotor was machined onto the rotor arm's shaft, which made access to the hall sender impossible.

Also looking at the resistance measurements of the oil temperature and air temperature senders, it seems that they are ok.

However, you also mentioned that the oil temperature sender plug (or socket ?) was deformed. Was this at the cable end or the oil temperature sender's end? If it was deformed at the oil sender's end then the oil temperature sender will need to be replaced.

On the VAG-COM side of things, the B series (and possibly the very first series of ECU for the mexican beetle) ECU takes a long time (at least 10 seconds) to establish communication with both a genuine VAG fault code reader (in this case my VAG 1552) and with a laptop running VAG-COM. I found this out when I was diagnosing Steve's (from Surrey) 1600i which has the B series ECU. My later D series ECU responds within about 1/2 second to 1 second.

VAG-COM may not connect to your ECU every time (it works every time with my D series ECU), so you may have to try to connect to your car's ECU a few times before it will establish communication. If the connection problem still persists, then you may have to exit and restart the VAG-COM software.

Good luck with your car.

Cheers,

Phil

[Pegasín]

Thanks again, Phade.

The "plug" I mentioned was a socket (sorry, it was a traduction problem ) it's at end of the cable. The oil sender was ok.

I will checking engine. But by a time I'm suspecting that the problem is from Hall sender ...

I hope this week I will catch the problem!!!

See you!

[Pegasín]

One more question...

What's that?

[phade]

That is the oil light switch plug

[phade]

One other thing I have also noticed is that the Bosch spark plug leads "for the mexican beetle" are in fact not very good. I have only had mine for about 7 months and one of the ends has failed on me yesterday.

I measured the resistance of the spark plug leads and the ignition transformer lead this morning and they are nowhere near VW's specification.

VW's specification:-

Ignition transformer to distributor: 1k Ohms
Spark plug leads: 4k Ohms to 6k Ohms. New lead is 5k Ohms

Bosch ignition leads measurements:-

Ignition transformer to distributor: 2k Ohms
Spark plug leads: 2k Ohms

This could be the cause of one of the spark plug lead end's internal resistor burning out. It may be an idea to check the resistance of each ignition lead just in case.

Good luck with your car.

Cheers,

Phil

[Pegasín]

[phade]

Yes, the signal from the hall sender inside the distributor determines the crankshaft position at 90 degree intervals.

The large notch on the impulse rotor (metal disc) is to provide a longer pulse than the other three pulses from the hall sender to the ECU. The ECU can then determine which one of those pulses is the number one cylinder's firing point.

The 1600i engine its self does not have a separate crankshaft position sender.

The mechanics of the 1600i engine is almost identical to the carburettor engines. The only mechanical differences (the electronic ones are obvious) are the following:-

- Cylinder heads (for fuel injectors and oil temperature sender)
- Inlet manifold centre section (no preheat ports from the exhaust)
- Engine tin (for oil temperature sender, lambda probe and no preheat pipe)

If you need the fuel injection booklet, let me know of your email address and I could email it to you (as a PDF file).

[Pegasín]

Thanks!

My email is z102pegaso@yahoo.es

Also I have notice that pistons are differente. Carburator pistons are
hollow, and Fuel Injection are plain. But I'm not sure...

I read that mexican tuners use F.I. pistons for better compression ratio in old VW engines.

I'm not sure too if valves and camshaft are the same in both engines. Also, the pushrods.

I'm very grateful 'cos I'm collaborator of the spanish edition "SuperVW Magazine" and I'm preparing an article about Fuel Injection engines, diagnose and experiences. If you don´t do the last reply, I will open a new exclusive topic with some doubts among carbs' and ACD engines

Also, my car is well-knowed in spanish VW aircooled world

.Soon, I will make my entry in the index of this forum with some photos. It's a mild resto-cal styled... In my town is an autentic head-turning car, he, he


See you!